Hugh [Hough, Hugo] [Hill], [de Hull], II de Neenton

Hugh [Hough, Hugo] [Hill], [de Hull], II de Neenton (c1310-1358)	Hugh [Hill] de Neenton (c1278->1328)	Warren [Hill] de Neenton (c1257->1328)	John Hawkins [Hotchkiss], de Northwod, de Hoxwode, de Flegh, de Hawkinge (c1225-c1311)
		Warren [Hill] de Neenton (c1257->1328)
		Joan (c1257-?)
		Joan (c1257-?)
	Joan (c1278-?)

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Notes

Note 1

!Stylename: [Hill], Hugh [Hough, Hugo], [de Hull], II de Neenton [~1310-4 Apr 1358]

This probably started with Hawkswood. The common scribal abbreviation would be Hauks or even Hask. If the scribe used a long “s” or “ſ”, which can look a lot like an “l” and minimized the “k” flourish, and as also happened a lot, barely wrote the “a”, these can end up looking exactly like Hill or Hull. At some point they likely looked at the written name and decided to use it. Of course the manor may have been on a slight hill as well.

- This is no longer stretching things even though the circumstantial evidence was overwhelming.

- The 1328 fine and related records establish the de Neentons as resident holders of the manor.

- By 1453 it was “held … later by one of the Hill family,” and by 1564 Humfrey Hill of Bewdley appears as patron of the living, confirming the Hills’ full possession and continuing local residence at Neenton.

- Warren de Neenton’s son Hugh II, b. ~1300, disappears into clerical records, while the Hill pedigrees suddenly sprout a Hugh de Hull/Hill married to Eleanor de Longslow.

- Theory: Hugh de Neenton and Hugh de Hull are the same, and Warren’s line feeds directly into the Hills — which explains why Hill resurfaces later holding Neenton land.

1. Chronology — Hugh de Neenton, ~1310, is perfectly placed to be “Hugh de Hull,” active in the 1340s with Eleanor de Longslow.

2. Geography — Neenton and Longslow are only ~30 miles apart, with Stoke-upon-Tern, site of the 1342 fine, in the corridor between them.

3. Property continuity — Warren’s line held Neenton in perpetuity. Later, Hill appears holding Neenton, if at overlord level rather than under-tenant.

4. Surname shift timing — “Hull”/“Hill” emerges exactly when Hugh II would need to adapt a hereditary surname. This was likely identity crystallization, not scribal error.

5. Family ties — The 1342 Feet of Fines show Hugh de Hull married to Eleanor de Longslow, heiress, with Isabel de Ferrers as her sister. This fits the Hill pattern of marrying heiresses to consolidate property.

6. Heraldic parallels — Hill of Buntingsdale, Sir John Hotchkiss, Sir William Hotchkiss of Patton, and Lord Mayor Sir Thomas Hill all display arms with shared motifs , suggesting a heraldic kinship.

7. Southern branch — Before 1480 Margery Mynors of Bewdley married William Hill of Cuntswall bringing ownership of another southern Shropshire mannor, and founding a separate southern Hill line.

8. DNA evidence — Our Hotchkiss DNA group, shows at least one Hill with close Y-DNA results to Hotchkiss, showing that some Hotchkiss/Hill lines are genetically close, and reinforcing a shared origin.

9. Tradition — The Lord Mayor of London’s diamond ring legend, long connected to the Hill/Hotchkiss story, dovetails with this identification, fitting the timeframe of Sir Thomas Hill.

10. Heraldic quarterings — Later Hill pedigrees quarter Longslow and Buntingsdale arms alongside motifs found in Hotchkiss heraldry — an otherwise puzzling overlap.

A. No direct charter or IPM names Hugh “de Neenton” as “de Hull," but then neither were actual surnames at the time.

C. Hill pedigrees were drawn centuries later, sometimes smoothing gaps, though Harl. MS 1241 notes the Hill name was added later to the original arms — consistent with derivation.

- Conclusion: While no single record proves Hugh II de Neenton = Hugh de Hull, the overlap of chronology, geography, landholding, heraldry, and even genetic evidence strongly supports the identification.

III. Tertiary/modern & caution: WikiTree, YouTube heraldry explainer, OurFamilyTree listings, OneGreatFamily posts, forum threads.

IV. Shropshire Arch. & Nat. Hist. Soc. vol. 36: “The Manor of Neenton was held in 1453 de John Earl of Shrewsbury, and later by one of the Hill family.”

V. Melocki Institutions of the Diocese – 1564 Apr 8: Humfrey Hill de Bewdley appoints priest for Neenton Showing the Hills have gained primary ownership and were resident all along.

!Source: TRANSACTIONS OF THE SHROPSHIRE ARCHAEOLOGICAL AND NATURAL HISTORY SOCIETY. ESTABLISHED 1877.

https://archive.org/stream/transactionsofsh36shro/transactionsofsh36shro_djvu.txt

1564 Apr 8 Neenton. Geoffrey Smalman. Humfrey Hill de Bewdley <<<< Showing the Hills have gained primary ownership and were resident all along.

!Source: The Visitation of Shropshire, TAKEN IN THE YEAR 1623, BY ROBERT TRESSWELL, SOMERSET HERALD, AND AUGUSTINE VINCENT, ROUGE CROIX PURSUIVANT OF ARMS;

Marshals and Deputies to William Camden, Clarenceux King of Arms. WITH ADDITIONA FROM THE PEDIGREES OF SHROPSHIRE GENTRY TAKEN BY THE HERALDS IN THE YEARS 1569 AND 1584, AND OTHER SOURCES. EDITED BY GEORGE GRAZEBROOK, F.S.A. AND JOHN PAUL RYLANDS, F.S.A.,OF THE MIDDLE TEMPLE, BARR1STER-AT-LAW. PART I. LONDON: 1889. page 242.

argent; 2, Salle, a lion rampant argent, crowned or, letween three crosses formee

fitchee of the second [Longslow] ; 3, Per pale or and argent, an eagle displayed

Husband of Alianor de Hull — married [date unknown] [location unknown] add/edit spouses

Hugo de Hull married Elianora, daughter and co-heiress of Hugo de Wlonkeslow.[1][2][3][4]

In 1342/3, Hugh de Hulle and his wife Eleanor were granted 10 acres of land in Stoke-on-Tern, Shropshire, England by Henry de Ferrers and his wife Isabel.[5]

In the family of "Hugo de Wlonkeslow Hawkeslowe [now Longslow]" is listed "Elianora filia et cohaer" who married "Hugo Hull de Hull in com. Salop", who had rights to "Arms: Ermine, on a fesse sable a castle triple-towered argent." [1]

Popular genealogies show his parents as William de Hull and Alice Baggard. <<<< Note that visitation of Shropshire makes clear that pevious generations surname was not known.

The Blakeway Manuscripts "consider William de la Hulle to have been Ancestor to Hugh," however Eyton does not agree with this descent.[6]

It is more likely that Hugh was the son of Adam de la Hulle, who was the son of a Hugh and a contemporary of William de la Hulle.

In 1301/2, Adam de la Hulle and William de la Hulle were fellow witnesses to a deed.[6]

↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 Rylands, John Paul. The Visitation of Shropshire, Taken in the Year 1623, By Robert Tresswell, Somerset Herald, and Augustine Vincent, Rouge Croix Pursuivant of Arms; Marshals and Deputies to William Camden, Clarenceux Ring of Arms; with Additions from the Pedigrees of Shropshire Gentry taken by the Heralds in the Years 1569 and 1584, and other sources, Part I "Hill of Court of Hill," pp. 242-3.

↑ 2.0 2.1 Rylands, John Paul. The Visitation of Shropshire, Taken in the Year 1623, By Robert Tresswell, Somerset Herald, and Augustine Vincent, Rouge Croix Pursuivant of Arms; Marshals and Deputies to William Camden, Clarenceux Ring of Arms; with Additions from the Pedigrees of Shropshire Gentry taken by the Heralds in the Years 1569 and 1584, and other sources, Part II "Stuche of Styche," pp. 445-6.

↑ 3.0 3.1 Powys-Land Club. Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, and its Borders, Vol. XIV p. 69.

↑ 4.0 4.1 4.2 Burke, John. A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland, enjoying territorial possessions or high official rank; but uninvested with heritable honors, Vol. I "Hill, of Court of Hill," p. 654.

↑ 6.0 6.1 Eyton, R.W. Antiquities of Shropshire, Vol. IV "Hulle, now Court of Hill." pp. 344-6.

Hugo de Wlonkeslow Hawheslowe [now Longslow], later known as Hill. Harl. 1241 [Longslow/Bird/Buntingsdale quartering] — and the “Hill of Buntingsdale” bit in Q4: Gules[red], a chevron between three pheons argent[silver].

Hotchkis [main] — Per pale gules[red] and azure[blue], a chevron engrailed or[yellow] between three lions rampant argent[silver]; crest: a cock’s head erased or between two wings displayed pelletée.

Hodgkis of Ampthill — Sable[black], a chevron or [yellow] between three griffins’ heads erased argent[silver]; crest: a cubit arm in mail argent, garnished or, holding a griffin’s head erased or, beaked azure.

Hill, Lord Mayor, Sir Thomas 1484/5: Sable[black], a chevron ermine[white] between three lions passant guardant argent[silver].

Hotchkis [main] Per pale red/blue Or, engrailed Lions rampant [silver] Cock’s head + wings

Hodgkis [Ampthill] Sable [black] Or Griffins’ heads [silver] Arm holding griffin’s head

Hill [Lord Mayor] Sable [black] Ermine [white] Lions passant guardant [silver] — <<<< Source for this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSMwPrHS5Jo

1. Backgrounds – overlap in red and black fields [Hotchkiss 1 v=black, 1 red/blue, Hill 1 black/ 1 red].

2. Chevron – all have one; Hill branches = silver/white, Hotchkiss = gold/yellow.

!Source: Feet of Fines, CP 25/1/194/13, No. 9 https://medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_194_13.shtml#9

Date: Two weeks from St Michael, 16 Edward III [13 October 1342]. And afterwards two weeks from St Hilary, 17 Edward III [27 January 1343].

Parties: Hugh de Hulle and Eleanor, his wife, querents, and Henry de Ferrarijs and Isabel, his wife, deforciants.

Agreement: Henry and Isabel have granted to Hugh and Eleanor the land and have rendered it to them in the court, to hold to Hugh and Eleanor and the heirs of their bodies, of Henry and Isabel and the heirs of Isabel for ever, rendering yearly 22 pence at the feast of the Purification of the Blessed Mary, and doing to the chief lords all other services. In default of such heirs, remainder to Isabel, sister of the same Eleanor, and the heirs of her body. In default of such heirs, the land shall revert to Henry and Isabel, his wife, and the heirs of Isabel, quit of the other heirs of Hugh and Eleanor and Isabel, sister of Eleanor, to hold of the chief lords for ever.

Persons: Hugh de Hull, Eleanor de Hull, Henry de Ferrers, Isabel de Ferrers, Isabel

The 1342 Westminster fine explicitly shows her as heiress of Hugo de Wlonkeslow . By marrying Hugh de Hull, she carries the Longslow inheritance directly into the Hull/Hill line. That’s not just heralds doodling pedigrees centuries later — it’s a hard legal record.

The fine names Stoke upon Tern land, placing Hill/Longslow right in the Shropshire corridor where Hill, Warren, and Neenton estates all overlap. Geography reinforces kinship.

Hill is a dynastic adjustment: Hull → Hill, anchored by Eleanor Longslow’s marriage.

!Source: https://richardiii.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/14-Dame-Margery-Astry.pdf

One modern study re-situates Margery Hill as a daughter of a Hill family of Hitchin, Herts. This contradicts the Visitation of Huntingdonshire 1613, which identifies her simply as “Margery, daughter of Hill of London, and heiress.” Treat the Martin genealogy with caution; useful for detail on London civic life, but not reliable for Hill family placement.

!Source: Revised Hill Family Information https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/hill/7412/

A few months ago, I revised material in my Hill Family File, due to information received by another Hill researcher.I will attempt to paste the first 5 generations of my Hills in this forum:

1.WILLIAM1 HILL1 was bornin MD2, and died May 06, 1720 in Middlesex co., VA2.He married ANNE JONES3.She was bornin Probably VA4, and died January 15, 1725/26 in Middlesex co., VA4.

2. i. WILLIAM2 HILL, SR., b. Abt. 1700, MiddlesexCo., VA; d. Abt. 1787, Surry Co., NC.

vii. DIANAH HILL4, b. August 25, 17154; m. DAVID BARWICK4, May 30, 1734, Middlesex Co., VA4.

!Source: Richard White Mere De La Hull Hill https://www.onegreatfamily.com/fh/Richard-Hull%20Hill/613302423

!Source: Shropshire Deer Parks c.1500 - c.1914, Recreation, Status and Husbandry, Sandra Morris

Other estates were concerned to maximise their income through a more ‘hands-on’ form of estate

management. The Hawkstone estate in North Shropshire had first been acquired by the Hill family in 1556, when

Sir Rowland Hill [d.1561], first Protestant Lord Mayor of London, bought Hawkstone for £700. Sir Rowland had

amassed a considerable fortune through trading in textiles, and invested it in estates acquired from the sale of

monastic lands after the Dissolution. Hawkstone remained in the ownership of the Hill family for more than 300

years, and the deer park reflected the changes in current fashion. It was Sir Richard Hill, a wealthy and well

travelled diplomat, who was responsible for raising the social status of the family and building a house

appropriate to that status in 1699, expanding both house and gardens after his retirement in the 1720s.452 The

work was influenced by the latest garden styles that Hill had seen on the continent. Letters written in 1722

between Sir Richard Hill and his steward John Dicken, record the latter advising his master on improvements

being undertaken in the gardens and park. “Joseph had some Labourers howing among the trees in the new

grounds most of which trees grow very well.” Dicken is advised by his master to get more labourers in while the

good weather lasts.453 By 1723 what appears to be a key to a missing plan indicates that the land has been

"brought together” and the “hedging all stocked up”. Reference is made to a "visto planted to range with the

outwalk of the wilderness up the hill", to an "eyecatcher", and to a "new plantation above the parker's garden". 454

This seems to suggest the beginning of a new approach to the design of the park. A letter written two years later

anticipates that Joseph will have finished his planting; new fishponds have been created, and a parcel of carp

received to stock them; tench, it seems, being difficult to come by.455 There is no specific mention of deer in this

correspondence, which raises the question as to the meaning of "park" at this time. It seems likely that by the

beginning of the eighteenth century, the word no longer necessarily denoted a deer park, or at least one stocked

with deer, and is moving towards the idea of a "landscape park" as understood in the latter part of the eighteenth

century, which will be discussed in the following chapter. This is borne out by the lack of clarity already noted in

Rocque's maps of 1752. His map of Hawkestone suggests a park boundary, but focuses primarily on a large

vineyard. Unfortunately, there is no surviving estate map of Hawkstone to show the park and gardens in the early

!Source: Grand Tourists at Soulton: Primary Sources Shed Light on Historic Visitor Destination https://soultonhall.co.uk/2023/grand-tour-visitors/

Views of the seats of noblemen and gentlemen, in England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Second series by Neale, John Preston, 1780-1847 is intersting becuse it underlines the dunastic way the Hill family is running [in particualr where male hier who carry thier link via a monther at times change back to the Hill name] and also records once again that the Hill spelling was not fimly happening with an ‘i’ intil relitively recently.

This source also contains inaccuracies, though in subtle ways. This can be explained by two factors: the sensitivity surrounding the family history and the need for Soulton to publicly acknowledge Hawkstone’s seniority as a Viscount’s residence. The complexity of the situation likely proved too much for a casual audience, who wouldn’t have been able to fully grasp the nuances anyway.

The situation of Attingham Hall is peculiarly fine; the river Tern, gliding in front, unites itself with the Severn within view of the Mansion, which is a noble edifice, built from designs by the celebrated Athenian Stuart. It consists of a centre and two wings, connected by corridors, and is adorned by a handsome tetrastyle portico of the Composite order.

The elegant Picture Gallery was erected by the present Lord Ber wick, to contain a very fine collection of pictures and statues, as well as Etruscan vases, and other antiquities, chiefly from Herculaneum; also, a very curious model of Mount Vesuvius, upon a great scale, made of the materials of the mountain by the late tasteful traveller, Dr. Clarke: this model was constructed with such accuracy of outline, and justness of proportions, that Sir William Hamilton pronounced it to be the best ever produced of the kind, either by foreigner or native. Some of the valuable pictures have been since removed from Attingham, and were disposed of in 1826, including the Virgin and Child, by Murillo, from the Santa Cruz Collection ; Christ restoring the Blind to sight, by N. Poussin, formerly in the gallery of Mons. de Calonn ; and the Continence of Scipio, by Rubens, from the Orleans Collection, one of the finest productions of the master, and which is said to be a companion to a picture by the same artist, in the possession of Lord Darnley.

Attingham Park and Pleasure Grounds were greatly improved under the direction of Repton, who made a new channel for the river Tern, which, rising in the north of the county, is now united with the Severn, immediately in front of the House, having its banks adorned with the most beautiful plantations. The span of the arch of the new Tern bridge, which unites the property on either side of the river, is one hundred feet. The Severn, afterwards, passes under Attingham bridge, and by the ruins of Buildwas Abbey towards Colebrook Dale. Our View is taken in the Park near the bridge. The paternal name of this branch of the family of Hill, was Harwood: Margaret, daughter of Rowland Hill, Esq., of Hawkestone, married Thomas Harwood, Esq., of Shrewsbury; their son assumed the name of Hill, in right of his mother.

Thomas Hill, Esq., of Tern Hall, as this seat was originally called, many years represented the town of Shrewsbury in Parliament : he married Susanna Maria, the daughter and co-heiress of William Noel, Esq., Judge of the Common Pleas, and died in 1782, aged about ninety. His son and heir, Noel Hill, Esq., was elected in three Parliaments M.P. for the county of Salop ; and on the 19th May, 1784, was created Lord Berwick, of Attingham. At his death, in 1789, he was succeeded by his eldest son, the present Lord Berwick.

Sir Rowland Hill, Knt., who was Lord Mayor of London in the reign of Edward VI., was one of the richest and most considerable merchants of his time. He performed great acts of generosity, and was an eminent benefactor to the public: besides founding Drayton, and other free schools, he built Stoke and Hodnet churches, as well as Atcham, or Attingham, and Terne bridges, at his own expense. He was buried in St. Stephen’s Church, Walbrook, London.

HARDWICK Grange is situated six miles from Shrewsbury, in a pleasant part of the county, amid beautiful eminences abounding with wood. It has lately been re-built in the Gothic style, by Thomas Harrison, Esq., of Chester, under the direction of Lord Hill : the design evinces much propriety of taste, and the plan comprises every desirable convenience: there are two projections connected with the centre by au arcade or cloister, the ends of the front terminate in a gable ; but much of the principal edifice, is embattled. This Mansion is adorned by some beautiful painted windows, the work of that ingenious artist, Mr. David Evans, of Shrewsbury, which are unique in design, produce the most brilliant effect, and are of very elaborate execution. In the Dining-room is a Portrait of the Duke of Wellington, by George Dawe, Esq., R.A., as also a full-length Portrait of Lord Hill, by Sir William Beechey, R. A. The Pleasure Grounds have a varied surface, and admit a succession of the most pleasing views of the neighbouring country.

It appears, by the visitation of Shropshire, made in the year 1623, that the family name of the noble proprietor was originally written Hull, from their residence at a place so called in this county. Hugh Hull, living in the reign of Edward II., married Eleanor, the daughter and co-heiress of Hugh de Wlonkeslow, and was the father of William Hull, Esq., of Hull and Wlonkeslow, who flourished in the reign of Richard II.

Humphrey, his grandson, was commonly called Hill, as his descendants have since been. He resided at Buntingdale, and married Agnes, the daughter and co-heiress of John Bird, of Charlton, by whom he had three sons : William, ancestor to the Hills, of Hill Court, in this county; Thomas, seated at Malpas, and Hodnet, father of Sir Rowland Hill, Knt., Lord Mayor of London, fourth Edward VI.; and Ralph, father of William Hill, of Blechley, who also had three sons, of whom, William the eldest, became ancestor to the Hills of Blechley and Soulton.

The passage outright says: when a male heir came through a mother, they’d switch back to Hill to preserve the prestige of the Hawkstone/Attingham line.

The Harwood → Hill example makes it explicit: a son of Margaret Hill and Thomas Harwood discarded “Harwood” and revived “Hill.”

That echoes what you’re seeing in the medieval record with Hotchkiss/Hokys/Hyll — scribes and families were looser with names than modern genealogists would like. For them, a surname was a tool, not a fixed identity.

Neale acknowledges that “Hull” was the older form [Edward II era], only becoming “Hill” consistently after Humphrey Hill + Agnes Bird.

That underlines your point: until the 16th–17th centuries, the “i” spelling wasn’t locked. In manuscripts, “Hull,” “Hyll,” “Hill,” and “Hokys” could all morph depending on the scribe’s ear, hand, or political convenience.

The subtle bias: Neale downplays Hawkstone’s seniority so Attingham [a Viscount’s seat] can stand taller for polite society.

That “reframing” matches the broader habit of polishing over awkward history — like smoothing out the contradictions between a Lord Mayor supposedly dead of sweating sickness in 1485 and a Thomas Hill dying in 1506.

These PR accounts are useful because the inaccuracies tell you what was being hidden or soft-pedaled.

Hotchkiss ↔ Hill isn’t far-fetched when even the Hills themselves admitted their name was Hull → Hill only belatedly standardized.

!Note: The willingness to revive or adjust the surname to preserve prestige shows how easily a Hotchkiss/Hyll in Shropshire might pass into “Hill” in one branch while staying “Hotchkiss” in another.

* Bottom line: Neale confirms your instincts — the Hill name was elastic, politically managed, and not fixed in spelling until quite late. That puts the Hotchkiss/Hill “blurring” right in the mainstream of Shropshire naming practice.

Hugh [Hough, Hugo] [Hill], [de Hull], II de Neenton

Personal and Family Information

Pedigree Chart (3 generations)

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Notes

Note 1